WHEN PASTORS DISCOURAGE PEOPLE, BECAUSE THEY ARE DISCOURAGED


Update:  May 2, 2011.  We went back to this church, yesterday,  after over a month.  I still do not know what the will is of the Lord for us, in this.  I never want to hurt anyone, by what I write.  Nor do I touch the anointed of God, by being critical.  I never mention this pastors name, or the church.  Yet, I have gotten some comments, some here, and in other places, that have been both, supportive, and critical of me in this.  I did enjoy the service. Last night. It was a worship service.  Maybe God wants us to return, and to pray for this church more.  It has so much potential, so does the pastor.  I just may be reacting also from past experiences.  Past hurts too.  So I am trying to be an open book here, for God to use me.  But, I know, prayer, will answer this, because I am not sure.  But I know God knows.  I trust God.  For myself, for my family.  For this church, for the pastor.  I trust God….  
 
PLEASE NOTE:  I wrote this as a draft.  I was originally not going to post it because, I did, expect to go back to this little church.  It has been over a month, since, we stopped attending.  I did not think, it would turn my husband off so much, but we have not been back.  This is an account, from that point.  I am just supportive of my husband, first, and trusting God, to guide us.  But now we do not have a church, to attend.  But it makes me realize, we do have to be careful.  And where we go, has to have lots of faith, and believe, in miracles…..The word of God, has to have power.  There has to be a sense, of the Holy Spirit…..In any event….Perhaps, it will help someone….This is always my prayer, when I write….But do Pastors realize, that if they do not speak faith, they can turn people off.  Because they are turned off?  Hmmmm. 

Jeremiah 12:11 Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.  They have made it desolate and being desolate it mourneth unto me; the whole land is made desolate because no man layeth it to heart.

What happens, when a Pastor, does not have faith?  Or does not believe, in God, and His power, completely?  And speaks, against the fruit, the power of God?  Where even, the Holy spirit, is not tapped into….  Or where there is not Holy communion, in remembrance of Christ.  What happens, when pastors, get turned off?  And they share their disdain?

We have been attending, a lovely little church lately.  And so I want to be careful as I write this.  The pastor, is an excellent speaker, and his wife, a nice lady as well.  The church, is not too big, not too small.  And everybody, is so nice.  I want to extend some grace in this matter, because the pastor, did mention, that he was tired, physically, and that their was an illness, concerning, one of his children.

Now, we come from a charismatic, background, so we are kind of used, to seeing, the anointing flow, we are used, to seeing pastors, lay hands on people, and the Holy spirit, called upon, and where the church, the body of Christ, is expressive, and “hallelujah” is often said, with the raising of hands.

We have been attending, this church, I would say about four months.  And at first, I did not notice, this, but there is no holy communion, at the services, we attended.  No layng of the hands, no flow of the Holy Spirit.  etc.

Last Sunday, my husband, was not feeling good, physically, and spiritually.  He had been taking a new blood pressure medicine, and it really was a downer for him.  It depressed him, and my husband, is not easily, depressed.  He is consistent in his personality, and pretty happy, in his faith, etc.

Well, we went to church last weekend, and as I mentioned, the pastor, did mention, he was tired, and so that was good, that he expressed that, he needs, to vent, too, I am sure. But, do pastors have that luxury, when they have a congregation, who needs to hear the power and the word of God?

Anyway, as the service, progressed, his sermon, was on prayer, and he brought up some points, that he expressed, yet, because he was somewhat turned off, in these situations, he more or less, turned my husband off.

And when I think about it in retrospect, I am not sure what exactly his motive was.  But he was very negative.  Not at all positive, or trusting God, in His sermon.  Or the power anyway.  Because he kept, addressing, phonies.  Why?

I had my armor, on, so to speak, and I may have cringed a bit, but I did not know, that it frustrated, my husband so much, that this weekend, he did not want to go to church.  And he brought up, how depressed, he was feeling, but when this pastor, made his points, he said, I needed to hear, how all things are possible, with God, I needed hope, and this pastor basically, took my faith and my hope away.  So, he did not want to attend this weekend.  I was shocked.

And it just made me think, that some of us, are strong, in the Lord.  Some of us know, who we are,in Christ,  but some of us, are really searching, for God, in signs, and wonders, in the moving of the Holy Spirit.  But in any event, there are times, even those that know God, need to hear something positive, not negative.

Gods ways, are not our ways….

This pastor, again, I know, is an excellent speaker, but maybe because he was on a downer, himself, he did not realize, how he sounded.  His points, were negative, truthfully.  And I am sharing them, because, they were related to illness.

But you know what, I believe, by Christs stripes I am healed.  Isaiah 53:5.  I believe, that God, sent the word to heal us, and deliver us from destruction.  I believe, when I pray Jeremiah 17:14, Heal me, Lord, and I will be healed, save me, and I will be saved, for you are the only one, I will praise.  I have meditated, and prayed that word, believing, in the anointing.  The laying of hands.  It gives me hope…..but it reminds, me, God is not a man.  God is able.

And my husband needed, a word, because he was ill, but in relating this, I don’t know, if this pastor, saw this or not, but he diminished faith and hope, because of examples he had seen.  And shared with the congregation.  Why share these?

The four points that he shared, in our sermon notes were the following:

1.  The sensationalist – Show biz healers.

2.  The confessionalists – the name it and claim it crew

3.  The rationalist – an illness is in the mind.

$.  The realist – God can heal but does not always.

I guess, even as I read this, I know, he was trying to bring some balance.  To perhaps, be aware of these kind of situations, perhaps, where he has seen, phony people, or pastors, etc.

Yet, it reminded me, that when people are desperate, or hurting, they need to release their faith.  They need to have something to grasp onto, to help them through, their pain, or their fear, or an illness.

Yes, maybe some are phonies.  But should one throw away the faith and hope?  Because of the phonies?   What if it gives hope?  And let me clarify this, but how does one know they are phonies?  If God is using them?  If the word of God, is used?  If there is evidence, of Gods power?  Hope, is what we need, to get to God.  To have results.  To move God, we need to show Him, we have faith.

Yes those points, brought up the phonies, perhaps the characteristics.  But when I go to church, I don’t want to hear about phonies.  I want to hear about the power of God, and I never want to diminish it, in any form.  Because it brings a spirit of doubt.

I have struggled, as I mentioned in my last post, about my faith.  But not now. And I have had to stir myself up, by the word, by repentance, and by believing, by taking the word and applying it, and if we do not apply it, well, we can easily get in the zone of unbelief.

As most of you know, I am adamant, about using the King James Bible, for my faith.  I believe in the power of it, because it has not been tampered with.

But what happens, when people are searching, and they hear the pastor, from the pulpit, more or less, saying its “hocus pocus” when they see, pastors, have healing services, when pastors do that?  Well, they are human.

You know, I am always reminded, that the devil is the accuser, of the brethren.  And intellectuals, realists, and religion, pharisee spirits, will say, nope, thats wrong.  And I think, we all can do it, but we have to be careful, who we are relating to.  We have to be careful, not to turn people, off, because we are turned off.  Bringing a spirit of discouragement.  So, there could be a danger, in not pleasing God.  God says, faith pleases him.

You know, I come from a place, where my faith has grown.  I believe the scriptures, when God, says, all things are possible with him.   When I heard him, say these things, again, I kind of cringed, but I shook it off, because no one, is going to make me feel any different, when I know who I am in Christ.

Yet, my husband was ill.  I took authority, I prayed for my husband.  I gave him scriptures on healing.  I tried to remind him, that it was going to be o.k.  I stood in faith for him.  But it was a tough couple of weeks.  Now, thank God, he went to the doctor, and got a different, medication, for his blood pressure, and is back to normal.  But, he felt a little sad, that when he needed this word, this pastor, was preaching his sermon, from a point of himself, being, turned off.  And he left, that service, not being hopeful.

The pastor, had elders, come to the front, and he had them pray for people.  This was a first, to see, since, we have been there visiting.  But, he did not pray for the people.  And it makes you think, where is the authority, from the leader, the pastor of the church, if he will not pray for the people, and delegate it to the congregation members?  To be honest, it seemed odd.

My husband, did not go to the prayer intercessors.  Maybe, he would have, if the pastor, had prayed for the people.

Consequently, again, we did not go to church this weekend, which left me a little sad.  I hope, we will go back to that church.  But how can we, if we do not feel the prompting from God?  My husband is the spiritual leader, in this household.  And so I trust God and Him.  We have to pray about it.  Searching for churches, can be exhausting.  You want to feel the love, you want to feel, accepted, but you want to see the power, of God, working.  You want to feel the spirit, the Holy Spirit, because then you are basically, just going, but not receiving.  Yes, people can get turned, off, because the Pastor may be turned off.

I want to give this church another chance.  I know, how it feels, when people, won’t give me a chance.  I have been praying for this pastor, and this church.

But, I will trust God, together, with my husband, and son, and pray, God will guide us, where we can all get something, out of our searching for God, at church.  God only knows….but first and foremost, I want to be obedient, and I want to believe, in miracles, not put them down.  Even as I write, I want to close on a positive note, with God all things are possible.  Period.

Just my thoughts, with Love, Elena Ramirez

A Prayer of Promise….

Lord, I changed my thinking lately, from hope, to claim your promises.  I want to be in an environment, where your word, is taught, in its purity.  And where the power of you our Lord, will be manifested, magnified, and brought to the light, for your glory.  Lord, please guide us.  Please guide us, to a church, where we can grow, but where your power, is revealed.  Where your Holy Spirit is.  Where there is more than hope, it is revealed by your promises.  Where love is.  We have not seen your love in too many places.  Lord, I don’t want phonies either, and I sure do not want to go somewhere, where you are not.  Lord, guide us.  Guide that pastor.  Such a lovely church father.  I don’t know, if that pastor, even seen what he was doing.  Or he just reacted by his own feelings.  Lord, when my feelings get in the way.  You have my permission, to kick in the door, and reveal your power, and that faith, will make things evident.  Because of who you are.  Thank you Lord.  I praise you and love you, and believe.  I believe, because of what Christ did on the cross.  No matter what.  I believe, in you.  In Jesus name.  Amen  

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4 thoughts on “WHEN PASTORS DISCOURAGE PEOPLE, BECAUSE THEY ARE DISCOURAGED

  1. I read your blog, Elenas. I don’t know where you go to church, and this may be a good thing. I do want to comment on one thing you put in there though. And that was that the Pastor did not pray for people at the end of the service, he had the elders pray. Isn’t the Pastors job to be the equipping of the saints? We all have the ability to pray for people, and lay hands on people. Why do people always leave it up to the Pastor to do that? Even children can pray for people and see healings happen. I’m not trying to be critical, just trying to put this in a different perspective. Too often we say “someone should be doing this”. I believe it God shows you a need, and no one else is picking up the ball, MAYBE God is highlighting it for you to do. Have a great day, and look forward to reading many more of your blogs.

    • Hi Donna,

      Thanks for your thoughts, they are much appreciated. Yes, I agree, that anyone can pray. And as an intercessor, myself, I understand, that anyone can pray. But, my point, is since, he did not pray for the congregation, and we had been there, as we mentioned, for over four months, how can the people, know, the authority they have? How can they feel a sense of equipping, if the pastor does not do it?

      I was not trying to be critical of him. In fact, as I mentioned, I sensed, a weariness in him. But sometimes, when we are weary, this is when, we must be aware, of the enemies tactics. This is when we must stir ourselves up, and yes, to say “someone should be doing this” is not really being critical, but there is an expectation of pastors, to press into God, to bring His truths, to the light, and frankly, to be careful, not to discourage anyone.

      I do pray for this pastor. I see a lot of good things in him. But, if any of us are “tossed to and fro,” (Ephesians 4:14) from circumstances, we cannot, fulfill who we are. And I know, sometimes, it can be hard, we cannot judge, what someone else does, but I think the goal, for every Christian, is to get stronger in our faith. And when you are in authority, there is a greater expectation…..Thats just the way it is.

      I hope that makes sense. And I really appreciate your thoughts. I think, dialogue, is needed, especially, to help us all.

      So thanks again, Donna. Elena

  2. Thanks for that clarification, Elena. Yes, dialogue is important. My comment was based on a conversation I had with a friend, who was very offended when a Pastor asked someone else to pray for needs. She figured he should have been the one doing the praying. And the reason he had asked someone else, is because he was needed elsewhere at the time.

    Anyways,you have a great day, and I look forward to reading more of your blogs.

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